To iPad or Not to iPad – A Look Into Technology Inside and Outside of School [IEP 008]
There are many different types of assistive technology to help students living with disabilities in the classroom. In this episode, Amanda and I discuss the purpose of the various technologies available, the pros and cons of their use in school, and how an assistive technology specialist can help.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- How the IDEA defines “technology”
- Why tablets are helpful as communication and accommodation devices, instructional tools, and for establishing access to the curriculum
- Can the use of technology be a requirement that is included in an IEP?
- Why and how school districts can be more evidence-based with their decision-making as to what particular device should be used
- What does an assistive technology specialist do and what role do they play in helping determine what technology a student is assigned
- Can any assistive technology issued by the school be used by the student at home?
- What are the pros and cons to using technology in school?
- Who is responsible for updating and maintaining any technological devices that are issued to students? The student or the school?
- What if cyberbullying occurs? Who is responsible for handling that situation?
- Are brand name, top-notch devices necessarily required? Why schools can consider their budget when choosing devices
Communication access realtime translation (CART)
Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act
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Full Show Transcript
Vickie Brett: Welcome to the Inclusive Education Project. I’m Vickie Brett.
Amanda Selogie: I’m Amanda Selogie. We’re two civil rights lawyers on a mission, to change the conversation about education, civil rights, and modern activism.
Vickie Brett: Each week, we’re going to explore new topics which are going to educate and empower others.
Amanda Selogie: And give them a platform, connect change in education and level the playing field.
Vickie Brett: Hello everyone. Thanks for joining us on the Inclusive Education Project, our brain child of a podcast that myself, Vickie Brett.
Amanda Selogie: And Amanda Selogie.
Vickie Brett: … Thought of. We talk about this stuff all the time and why not record ourselves? You’ve been listening to our episodes. We try to really focus in on areas that are interest to us or areas that are in the news, but not really covered. Today, we have a really great topic that we’re going to be getting into, but before we do that, we just want to thank you so much for listening today and all the other days. If you haven’t, you want to hit that subscribe button on either the iTunes, Stitcher or Google Play, wherever you’re hearing this, so that you can get an update when our new episodes dropped. We try to be pretty good on social media.
Amanda Selogie: We try. Yeah.
Vickie Brett: In telling you when the episode drops, but if you haven’t noticed, actually drop every Tuesday. If you press subscribe, it’s already in your queue and it’s ready for you to listen to. Today, we are talking about assistive technology or just technology in general, right? Students are using it whether they have IEPs or not, everybody is on their phone, their smart phone. I know some kids take tablets to school. I know in junior high, high school, some kids even have laptops now. There’s not a lot of focus on writing your notes anymore.
Amanda Selogie: Right. Well, there’s certainly too much technology out there and we will say as a disclaimer, we are not parents ourselves. This is not like a parenting kind of advice from parents, but we do want to talk about the pros and cons of the technology in general. The main thing that we want to talk about is the technology in your school setting, how it can be used and how it can help the pros and cons. The technology outside of school, so looking at is it is a good idea for your child to have too much access to technology? Then, if you think this is something that would benefit your kid in school, how can you go about getting?
Vickie Brett: The practical application of it. We’ll start with the law. What that law actually says? Under The Individuals with Disability Education Act, the IDEA, any item, piece of equipment or product system whether acquired commercially, off the shelf, modified or customized that is used to increase, maintain or improve functional capabilities of children with disabilities. That’s just lawmakers putting these words and essentially the easiest example is an iPad.
Amanda Selogie: Right. That’s definitely a mouthful of a definition. There’s kind of different types of technology, so we can talk about technology that assist with accommodations for kids. We will go in more depth with that but then also, that helps with instruction and then the third category is that helps with access. Vickie, when we look at ones that would help with accommodations, you mentioned the iPad. What are the kind of ways?
Vickie Brett: Right. It’s a broad definition within the law as well, right? If any device or service that your child needs to benefit from his or her special education or related services or enabled your child to receive their education in the least restrictive environment. Those are all the guidelines that we have from the IDEA and from the federal rules, right? The best example is a tablet of some sort, iPad is a brand, right? Just like Kleenex is a brand of tissue paper, iPad is a brand of the type of device that we see with children who have difficulty with communication. It wouldn’t necessarily be only for a child that’s non verbal.
We have some of our clients that have down syndrome that have an inability or just hard time trying to effectively communicate. They can actually speak, but it’s limited words or stringing along long sentence. It’s just not where they’re at. It may be a goal they’re working on, but a tablet with some sort of a communication whether that be through pictures, whether it be through them selecting the picture and then it saying the word out loud. What’s great about technology and where it’s at right now is there’s so many applications online.
Amanda Selogie: Oh, so many. Well, that’s what’s … When we look at communication devices, we can consider that to be sometimes it’s an accommodation because it’s not necessarily giving the information to the child about the content of what they’re learning, but it’s a way for them to communicate either their wants and needs or give answer. We have kids who have say, for instance, cerebral palsy who have sometimes the ability to comprehend the language and provide information, but maybe they are non-verbal and so they communicate either through signs or their devices. Sometimes their devices are helpful because not everyone knows sign language or some kids have their own kind of sign language with their parents and other times, they have American Sign Language, ASL. That’s like the communication aspect of the iPad, but one thing we’re seeing a lot more is iPads and computers being used as a tool for everyone in the classroom.
We have some classes, some schools that have Chromebook Carts. They have maybe two carts in the whole school and the classroom is sharing. I remember when I work as an aid at time and now, they didn’t have Chromebooks. They had gotten donated, I believe some Apple laptops. It was like Apple, so it was like so foreign to me because these kids were learning how to use Apple laptops and I was like, “I don’t know how to use this,” but there was like a couple of carts for the fourth and fifth grade class because back then, it used to be the fourth and fifth graders, that’s when you start learning typing of your written work versus we’re focusing on cursive. Now, we’re seeing a kind of a shift of, “Well, no.” We can have even younger children using computers and laptops and tablet devices, not just as a communication tool but as a tool to maybe their handwriting, they have trouble with occupational therapy and the fine motor. Just the typing is a little bit easier or even some of the tablets. They can draw their pictures.
Vickie Brett: Right. It’s not supposed to be a replacement or learning how to write, it’s supposed to be an appropriate accommodation and you’re thinking, “Okay. Well, who’s illegible to receive it?” Obviously, we always try to relate it back to what we do as attorneys, which is special education law. When we’re talking about the children receiving this type of service and what if all the other kids get it? Okay, that’s fine. You still want it to be put into the child’s IEP because maybe next year they go to junior high and that particular junior high didn’t have the funding, so that all the children could have laptops, but there’s just one in the classroom that’s available to everyone.
Well, if your child needs it in order to take notes from the board because the notes go really fast and their writing because of some fine motor deficits is not as fast as a typical seventh grader and then somebody else is taking the classroom computer, then yeah. It might be there and they might have access to it, but if it is in their IEP, then they have to have that particular Google Chromebook or tablet or whatever device available to them.
Amanda Selogie: Yeah. [inaudible 00:08:18] that I’ve been seeing is I’ll have a teacher that will talk about how the classroom has a Chromebook Cart or an iPad cart or something like that already in the classroom and the assistive technology specialist has recommended a device for this individual child and the teacher says, “Well, we already have access to it. Any other kids when we’re doing writing assignments can go and grab one and use it, but sometimes with our kiddos, they’re not going to go and initiate the use of the Chromebook or the iPad.” They are going to start out doing their work like everyone else, see maybe that no one else is grabbing one, not realize and recognize that the work that they’re doing is taking twice as long because their handwriting, they have difficulty with it because of fine motor issues. We’ve had to put in the IEP that not to say, that they have to use it every assignment that’s longer than say, three sentences but the idea that the teacher has to initiate the use of it.
Don’t rely on the student to go and use it because we know that it is beneficial for them to use the typing aspect instead of the handwriting. I’ve actually had kids who are like perfectionist. They don’t want to hand write stuff. They literally take so long handwriting because they want it to be perfect whereas typing will just get that content out. It’s important to be very specific in the IEPs.
Vickie Brett: It depends on how old the child is too because that might interfere with self-advocacy, and so we want the child to actually indicate that they need to use it but when we’re talking about the younger kiddos that might perseverate on certain things, then yeah. It’s definitely something where you want to make the teacher aware and it may not necessarily be in the IEP, but that teacher is at least aware of it because putting terminology like as needed and things like that, if the child is in the third grade and …
Amanda Selogie: Not going initiate.
Vickie Brett: It’s not going to initiate. That’s one of the reasons why having the IEP team and being part of the team as a parent is helpful because you know your child best and yes, the teachers and everybody else sees your child but you know your child and their capability. Sharing stuff like that is really helpful. A lot of times, parents want to know, “Oh, okay. Well, I think it will benefit my child.” Typically, you’re able to … When the district in you are at a disagreement as to whether or not you should use that particular device and I know that this is getting ahead of what we were talking about with the teams, usually the districts will want to do some type of evaluation and see what type of, right? Because we talk about iPads, tablets, but there’s other sorts of software and technology and reading programs, sometimes for instructions, sometimes for remediation, that’s like READ 180, the language program, there’s comprehensive math programs out there. There are just so many.
A lot of times, districts have to … We want them to be evidence-based. One type of reading program may be beneficial for children that are trying to learn English and that’s not an appropriate software or program for a child with dyslexia. That’s where it comes in the handy when a district may want to do an evaluation to see whether or not … Not that it won’t benefit the child. I think any sort of technology can benefit any type of child, but what type of technology we’re using in the classroom.
Amanda Selogie: Right. The assisted technology specialist is going to first look at what is the purpose of the technology? Going back to what I had mentioned about is the purpose to give a student a tool as an accommodation of like a support? With fine motor difficulties, we want them to get the content of the language out into paragraph of writing and what not. We might use, like we had said, the iPads, the Chromebooks, even like Google Classroom and we have like text to speech apps or speech to text. The second purpose of technology might be for actual instruction for remediation. Maybe our child has auditory or visual processing or even language processing deficits where instruction by a teacher, they’re only able to grasp 50% of that instruction. Maybe they’re in fourth grade and the teacher is doing a lot of that lecture type and some kids can really benefit from visual supports at that time, which could be considered as a technology in some instances, but sometimes the student needs it a little bit more intensive.
Like you said, the comprehensive reading or instruction programs where the program itself is providing that instruction to the student and they can almost do it independently because the computer is like the teacher but then the third way that we … For the third purpose is that access. We’re going to most likely see it with our low incident students.
Vickie Brett: Those are with visual impairments, blind, hard to hearing. That’s what she means when she says low instances.
Amanda Selogie: Yeah. How are they able to access the curriculum? If we have a student who’s blind or has low vision, obviously they cannot see what’s on the board or even with the piece of paper in front of them, they may need something like a braille note. They may need translation services. We might need CART services for students who are deaf or hard of hearing, which is essentially you translation services either it’s through having an actual translation that’s either providing sign language or what’s more commonly used because it’s more comprehensive is the CART services where you have someone that’s actually typing every word that’s being said.
Vickie Brett: CART stands for Communication Access Real-Time Translation and it could actually also just be a software computer programming that is literally, it’s like close captioning for real life.
Amanda Selogie: Right. Like in the moment. If a student … You might have seen this. Some people have seen it like in college campuses, it’s more popular for colleges to have these programs where the student is listening to the lecture through reading on the teleprompter or the screen that’s in front of them, so that they’re getting every word that the instructor is saying versus sometimes like translation, after the fact or through sign language may not encompass 100% the same way. Sometimes CART is a preferred. Then obviously, we talked about the communication, the augmentative alternative communication devices, a succinct students accessing communication and then speech to text or text to speech, which like Vickie mentioned, they either can point to a picture on their iPad and it says a word or they can develop a sentence and then it says it out loud for a non-verbal students.
Other times, it’s where the student has difficulty with language processing with their writing and a lot of times, it makes it difficult for them to compose a sentence or a paragraph, but they could say it. They’re actually speaking to the microphone into the computer and it translates it into text or vice versa.
Vickie Brett: There’s all sorts of audio books out there as well that some schools just have that readily available for all students and with other districts, you have to actually put it within the IEP, so that the child has access to the audio books. A child with dyslexia may be able to go online and hear the book being read and read it at the same time along with the out loud reading and that’s a great tool that … Sometimes categorize as assistive technology. When a child has a tablet or other type of device, a lot of parents were like, “It’s mine. It’s the child’s,” and it’s not. It’s actually if the school district buys it, then it belongs to the school district. If your child moves from one school to the other, they still should have access to it but if you move from one district to another district, that new district would have to provide that technology. You don’t get to just take that iPad with you.
Amanda Selogie: What about for like homework?
Vickie Brett: Right. That gets into assistive technology outside of the school. For homework and projects, sometimes there are extra-curricular activities obviously, if it’s a communication device, the child is able to take that device home if it is still within the purview of education, right? We just did the two examples. They will need it for homework and project, so the parent isn’t expected to just buy an iPad and all of the software and things like that just so the child can complete homework. District is obligated to have the child to take it home and to use it, and obviously that’s helping them make progress towards their goals. That’s the real purpose when the equipment is able to be taken home. The district can’t limit the use of the device just to school. That’s breaking the free and appropriate public education component, but they are able to have the parent sign something saying that it belongs to the school.
Amanda Selogie: Like a waiver.
Vickie Brett: Yeah. It’s not necessarily a waiver, because if you break it at home, it’s not like the district is like, “Oh well, you have to pay for it.” They would still have to provide a new device if it’s a natural wear and tear and accidents happen, but they’re not allowed to say like, “Hey, if you break it, you buy it.” That’s not the free component of a free appropriate public education.
Amanda Selogie: It used to be where school districts would have parent sign a waiver. Essentially that was what the case was, like, “You’re allowed to take it home, but you have to …”
Vickie Brett: Yeah. They’re not allowed to replace the technology. They can still make you sign a waiver. They just cannot say that you have to replace it if it’s damaged or lost because if it’s a result of your student’s disability, then that’s not something that they can force you to do.
Amanda Selogie: Right. When Vickie says they can’t means what the law says, unfortunately, do still see school districts that are doing that. If you’re a parent and your IEP team has said, “The student needs a device for X, Y and Z reasons, and that [inaudible 00:18:10] over to use at home,” then they have to provide that access at home like Vickie said, free, but we are seeing sometimes where the school district will say, “No, no, no. You have to agree that if something goes wrong, you have to pay for it.” Just know that you can, as a parent say, “No. That’s what the law says.” That’s an important component.
Vickie Brett: Well now, we’re not trying to give you legal advice. There are some circumstances like I said that it just depends and so, you can’t just take that and say, “I heard it on this podcast and you can’t make me do anything.” Obviously you can try to negotiate the terms of the waiver. You can make sure that you’re not liable for any expected damage. Obviously if it’s in the course of use or like I said, accidents happen, but this is our disclaimer that from what we have seen and from what our knowledge of the law, they are not allowed to make you replace it. Now like I said, everything and there could be differences in the story or whatever. If you have any questions and if you feel like a school district is doing that, reach out to a legal professional, so that they can make that appropriate determination.
Amanda Selogie: We talked about uses of technology in school and outside of school. For outside of school, I know sometimes parents, there’s always a debate about should kids at certain ages have access to types of technology that maybe is not educationally related? Having not only laptops and computers, but like cellphones and social media and we’ve definitely seen pros and cons to that. The same is like there’s pros and cons to technology in school. Let’s talk about maybe some pros and cons of technology in school. Why would there be a con to some of that technology?
Vickie Brett: It could be a distractor for the child having … They’re really young and not really understanding the purpose behind the technology. They could get easily distracted. Also, another con I can think of with our older kiddos is they don’t like feeling different and if they have a laptop, they feel like different or if one kid says something, then they don’t want to use it. It makes them different and that would be another con for older kid.
Amanda Selogie: One that I found is we have sometimes kids who have positive reinforcement systems either at home or school or both. Sometimes the iPad can actually be used as a positive reinforcement, so either … I had a kiddo once that loved looking at pictures of her friends and family and things that she had done, so she had like one of those mini iPads that she had at home and school was like parent purchased it and uploaded pictures and part of it was more of like a reinforcement of I want to look at pictures and so on the child’s break, she was able to like choose to like at the pictures. Then, if after the weekend, parent uploading more pictures of what they did on the weekend like the team or her peers could talk to her about things that happened over the weekend. The great thing about that is that it’s a positive reinforcement system, but when that same student has a recommendation for an augmentative alternative communication device to actually do communication, we had to look at using a different type of device.
We couldn’t use another mini iPad for a communication device because it was too confusing, right? She saw the mini iPad as being a reinforcer and not as a communication device. We have to be very clear if there’s one device being used for one purpose, sometimes you need a different kind of device for that other purpose. I think we ended up doing like, it was like a mini iPad and then a regular iPad. The size and the color of the case was enough to differentiate for her but sometimes students, they like, “You could have on the iPads or some of the tablets, like have the functionality where you can’t use certain apps and so like you walk out everything else.” Well, if you had on there only the communication device and they’re sitting, they’re getting frustrated because they’re trying to get to their pictures, then that might frustrate them.
You had to be really careful if we have different purposes for devices for our loader functioning kiddos that we’re not confusing them and we’re also, like Vickie said, like the distraction part of them trying to get. If you had say, communication device and that reinforcer on the iPad, they might get distracted by wanting to go to the other apps.
Vickie Brett: Training for these devices for the child, for you as the parent, for the district staff should also be provided for by the district, so that you’re able to seamlessly go between those applications so that everybody’s on the same page as to, “Okay. What’s that fine line and how are we going to address it?” That’s obviously also part of the school district’s obligation. They can’t just give you an iPad and expect you to figure it out and just on a side note, a related note, I guess pairing and maintaining, any of the updates or if we’re using it for communication, adding vocabulary, things like that, that’s all the responsibility of the school district as well.
Amanda Selogie: Oh, I wanted to bring up one more thing I thought of for technology outside of school. A lot of public libraries have book sharing programs, so for our kiddos who are learning to read or struggling with reading on the computer, they usually have free programs through the public library that’s like book share so they can go in and they will read the book to them while having the highlighted, so that’s free. That’s something that parents can get and there are also free apps that are like this as well, so that’s another tool that even if the school is not giving it to you, that’s something that parents can go to. I know another con that we see with technology outside of school is issues of social media. We’ve really seen an uptake of cyber bullying and it’s getting in the way not only with the kids being online in school and in class as a way of bullying through Snapchat or Facebook.
We have had instances where our kiddos have been bullied through those sites and it’s either happening at school or happening after school and there’s sometimes a difficult gray area on where is it the district’s obligation to handle these types of bullying issues when it’s on social media? I think most people would assume if the social media bullying is happening during school hours, like that’s the responsibility of the school. Like if someone is sending a snap during school hours, like that’s a responsibility of the school. If someone is sending the snap during school hours on campus, but if it’s after school, it gets a little bit more … It’s a little trickier.
Vickie Brett: I know we’re talking about technology or trying out mostly like assisted technology and how the child can use it in school and the iPads won’t necessarily give them that access to the internet or anything like that. Usually they only work on secured WiFi or things like that. It’s not like you’re inviting into your home the possibility of your child being cyber bullied unless you have some type of device that the child can access it, but just to allude to it, I know that we’ll probably get into it a little bit more in the future but is of concern for a lot of parents and that goes into just the amount of time your child is on social media and that’s a personal decision that every parent needs to make in the monitoring of it.
That’s how it relates to assistive technology, but as we’re wrapping up, I know that we talked a lot about assisted technology under an IEP and your child doesn’t necessarily need to have an IEP if they want to use some type of assisted technology because under the ADA, the Americans with Disability Act section or section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act, as Amanda had indicated with access. Those two are anti-discrimination provisions and you could get assisted technology as a reasonable accommodation under the [inaudible 00:26:14] because if your child … This is like the biggest example always. If your child uses a wheelchair, he may need a specifically designed desk for the classroom, right? Because that’s access to his classroom. If your child had a visual impairment but doesn’t have an IEP, they may have access under the ADA or section 504 to have a special type of computer screen or some type of software to help them process things auditorily and not necessarily visually.
Those are things that parents out there or even with children with dyslexia, they probably should be an IEP but we understand, a lot of kids get missed when they’re being the child fine which we have talked about extensively in prior podcast, but that’s just something to keep in mind as well.
Amanda Selogie: Yeah. One thing I will say is more often than not, even if kids are on IEPs, they probably never had an assisted technology assessment. A lot of times, kids come to us and they may have a communication device or maybe they didn’t, maybe they need one, maybe they get benefit from the comprehensive reading programs to get remediation and it’s typically … A lot of school districts don’t include assistive technology assessments as part of their comprehensive or “comprehensive psycho educational” like the triangular assessment. It’s really important for parents to know that this is something that you can ask for. If you believe there’s any … Anything that we’ve talked about today is something that you think your child might benefit from, you can ask the district for specific assistive technology assessment whether your kid has an IEP or not and the district is required to assess, it’s part of their child fine obligation to determine whether or not there’s services or accommodations that your child will be able to benefit from and receive a free appropriate public education.
Vickie Brett: Yeah. The IEP team has to consider the need for assisted technology and when they don’t try to do some type of evaluation beforehand or just make that determination without that data, that’s something that we see all the time which isn’t necessarily a good thing. That’s one of the things that we can see. It doesn’t necessarily have to be an evaluation. Like I said, a lot of these things can be accommodation. It’s not necessarily a service, but it’s a type of accommodation that your child may need to gain an educational benefit in the school setting.
Amanda Selogie: But then the evaluation, if done correctly, would allow the assessor to look at trialing a couple of different devices because as Vickie and I said, there’s a lot of accommodation than tools out there and what works for one kid may not work for another. It’s important for a team to really try out a couple of these before they make a combination of this one works better than that one.
Vickie Brett: Look, you might not get the iPad. You might not get the Google Chromebook. Expense or cost can be a factor. It can’t be the only factor, but if there is a device that maybe less expensive but still gets the job done, then if they’re going to give you a Google Chromebook, you can’t say, “Well, no. I want the iPad.” Remember under special education, it’s that level of … Actually, this last year, we had a great case from the Supreme Court that changed things, but it used to be the basement floor opportunity like it’s just the … You’re not getting the Escalade, you’re getting the Pinto or whatever like a cheap cars out there to update my analogy because everybody was like, “Pinto? Is it the Ford Fiesta versus the Tesla?” You’re getting the Ford Fiesta. It’s good, it’s reliable, it gets the job done but it’s not rolling up in a Tesla. That’s something that parents need to be aware of too is that if the Google Chromebook is still going to give your child access to type out their essays, then you don’t necessarily need the brand name of the iPad.
Again, there’s different circumstances. Each kid is different whether they have an IEP or not, so if you have any questions, you’re definitely going to want to talk to somebody that understands what the federal law and what California law states. Reach out to them if you think that your child can benefit from it. I think that’s it.
Amanda Selogie: Yeah.
Vickie Brett: I think we’re good in assisted technology. [crosstalk 00:30:25]
Amanda Selogie: Yeah. We always say like it’s such a good tool. We often times have some people say like, “Oh, too much technology is a problem,” but other than some of the things that we mentioned, then there’s other con as well but it’s usually of a benefit of a kid to have the technology in school as a tool. Right?
Vickie Brett: Yeah. It’s just like anything. Just balance it out.
Amanda Selogie: Yeah.
Vickie Brett: Right? It’s like, “We don’t want too much of it because we don’t …” I get that all the time with kiddos that have dyslexia. It’s like spelling shouldn’t matter, and so I’m okay with the word processing her incorrectly spelling a word and her just getting … Understanding. The comprehension is more important, right?
Amanda Selogie: Yes.
Vickie Brett: I think that that’s something that parents need to take into account too, but it’s just like if you want your child on medication, that’s your own personal choice. If you want your child to have some type of technology, not a lot, then you balance it up because you’re part of the team and you have a right to have your parenting choices be considered.
Amanda Selogie: Absolutely.
Vickie Brett: I think that that’s something that parents don’t necessarily remember.
Amanda Selogie: No. No. If you’re not sure if your IEP even has assisted technology, there’s always going to be one line in special factors page that says, “Does the child need assisted technology?” More often than not, if I have a dollar for every IEP I saw where it was check marked no, but there has never been an assessment, I would be so freaking rich right now.
Vickie Brett: Yeah.
Amanda Selogie: A lot of times, it’s just check marked no because maybe the team does not had the experience with certain device and they’ve never done an assessment.
Vickie Brett: Right.
Amanda Selogie: Take a look at your IEP and you’ll know more.
Vickie Brett: Yeah. Take a look and if you enjoyed today’s episode, just leave us a comment on any of your listening device applications and think of all the ways that you could have used assisted technology back in the day. I remember my math teacher being like, “Your name are going to have the calculator carrying it around,” and it’s like, “Booya! My phone has a calculator.”
Amanda Selogie: Yeah. Or you need to make sure you’re neo cursive for high school.
Vickie Brett: Oh, yeah. I only assign my name in cursive. That’s the only thing that I use cursive before.
Amanda Selogie: Standardized testing, when you have to do that little square of maybe it was the LSATs.
Vickie Brett: Yeah, that was it.
Amanda Selogie: Where you had to do like a full paragraph incursive.
Vickie Brett: I don’t even remember.
Amanda Selogie: To prove that it was like you.
Vickie Brett: That was like you.
Amanda Selogie: [crosstalk 00:32:42].
Vickie Brett: Like even doing that. Just double checking that.
Amanda Selogie: I remember being like, “I don’t remember this” the last time I used it in high school.
Vickie Brett: Oh, yeah. You’re right. It was like a whole [crosstalk 00:32:50].
Amanda Selogie: Yeah.
Vickie Brett: Yeah. You’re right because I remember thinking, and I think it’s probably just a mind game that they were playing with you.
Amanda Selogie: I think so.
Vickie Brett: Like, “You are going to be tested on this cursive thing.” Anyway, assist technology, go out. Get it. Use it.
Amanda Selogie: Time to change in. It’s important to know about new techniques. Yeah.
Vickie Brett: Hope you guys enjoy the rest of your evening or afternoon or morning because you can listen to this whenever.
Amanda Selogie: Yeah.
Vickie Brett: Thanks for listening to us.
Amanda Selogie: Bye.
Vickie Brett: Bye.