Aug / 14

Starbucks® is Opening Its First Signing Store: Is That Enough? [IEP 041]

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Starbucks recently announced that it’s opening its first signing store in Washington DC to provide services and employment opportunities for deaf and hard of hearing patrons. This certainly appears to be a move in the right direction but we’re discussing whether this is merely a one-and-done type of situation or if this is opening the door for greater opportunities in the future.

Full show transcript at the bottom of this post.

If you’re in Southern California, we’d love for you to register and attend our 4th Annual Panel and Silent Auction on Thurs, Sept. 13th, 2018 5:30-8:30. Join our Facebook Group to find out how to register.

What We Discuss in this Episode

  • We catch up on what’s going on with the plastic straw ban, in Santa Barbara specifically
  • Starbucks opening their first signing store to provide services for deaf patrons
  • Even though it’s one store, this opening starts the conversation. But is it enough?
  • What all is going into tailoring this store to deaf patrons
  • Should Starbucks employees learn ASL?
  • If this concept at this particular store succeeds, is there concern that Starbucks will feel like they’ve done enough?
  • Why it’s important to teach the next generation of students tolerance and acceptance


Article about Starbucks opening the store

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Full Show Transcript

Vickie Brett:                      Welcome to the Inclusive Education Project, I’m Vickie Brett.

Amanda Selogie:              I’m Amanda Selogie. We’re two civil rights lawyers on a mission to change the conversation about education, civil rights, and modern activism.

Vickie Brett:                      Each week we’re gonna explore new topics which are going to educate and empower others.

Amanda Selogie:              And give them a platform to enact change in education and level the playing field. Welcome everyone.

Vickie Brett:                      I was in charge of turning it on again.

Amanda Selogie:              You see why I’m normally in charge of it.

Vickie Brett:                      But practice makes perfect. So, that’s why I’m doing it for now.

Amanda Selogie:              Three terms a term, for next term?

Vickie Brett:                      Inclusive education project podcast. That’s what you’re listening to. It is another summer day for us here. So, if you’re listening to this in the winter, it’s currently 82 degrees in Southern California.

Amanda Selogie:              Maybe you’re really longing for those summer days.

Vickie Brett:                      Maybe. Or you’re listening to this right around the end of July/August and we are in the dog days of summer. So, I actually looked that up because I was like, “Oh why do we say that?”

Amanda Selogie:              Oh yeah, what does it mean?

Vickie Brett:                      I mean, it’s just a saying where it’s just like, “Oh you’re just,” like in the long days of-

Amanda Selogie:              What was the origin though? Why do we say dog days?

Vickie Brett:                      I think it had something do with farmers and it refers to August, in particular, the month of August, these hot sultry days of summer, but it had to do with the star Sirius which is the Greek and Roman astrology connected with the heat, drought, sudden thunderstorms, lethargy, fever, mad dogs and bad luck. So, that was [crosstalk 00:01:45].

Amanda Selogie:              That doesn’t sound good.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah, I don’t know why I said it the other day but I was like, “What? Why am I saying this?” But anyway, we’re getting into the dog days of summer.

Amanda Selogie:              We definitely are. We’re getting the heat.

Vickie Brett:                      Actually, I saw an article where it was talking about some Harvard study, which I don’t know why we needed to study on this, it’s pretty apparent that the heat just basically slows your brain down, or just makes you not want to do anything.

Amanda Selogie:              Well, there is the expression, fry your brain.

Vickie Brett:                      That’s true. But that I feel like was-

Amanda Selogie:              My brain is fried.

Vickie Brett:                      … I feel like that was in the nineties to get us to not smoke weed. Do you remember those?

Amanda Selogie:              Yes.

Vickie Brett:                      This is your brain.

Amanda Selogie:              Oh, this is your brain on drugs.

Vickie Brett:                      This is your brain on drugs. Questions? Well, that was our PSA Corner.

Amanda Selogie:              PSA Corner.

Vickie Brett:                      Don’t do drugs.

Amanda Selogie:              Or therapy corner. We’ve been having some flashbacks this week, PTSD to the bar because-

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah, the California bar takers, the new batch of graduates, from May, Law Schools.

Amanda Selogie:              They just took it.

Vickie Brett:                      They just took it.

Amanda Selogie:              Although their PTSD is not gonna be as strong as ours because they only had to do two days this year.

Vickie Brett:                      Right, the California Bar is now three-

Amanda Selogie:              Two days.

Vickie Brett:                      … It went from three days to two days. So, when we took it back in our day-

Amanda Selogie:              Back in our day.

Vickie Brett:                      … which was six and seven years ago, so it’s not even that long ago.

Amanda Selogie:              It feels like a long time.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah, it was like day one is essays, and then the practicum stuff. Day two is multiple choice, and then day three was day one all over again. So, they just cut that one out.

Amanda Selogie:              It’s just a bunch of resources. I mean it’s, talk about frying your brain. The bar will do that to you.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah. Did you take a break after the bar or did you start working?

Amanda Selogie:              Well, I started working but I like-

Vickie Brett:                      But not legal working?

Amanda Selogie:              No. I worked at a restaurant for a month and then a got a temp job working for the Irvine company and then, because I had a job lined up but it was continuated on me passing the bar, so I had to wait until November.

Vickie Brett:                      Oh to even start.

Amanda Selogie:              To even start, yeah.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah, some people they’ll have, there are a lot of that their law schools like USC they will, you’ll get an offer your first year of law school to work for a big law firm. So, then you would start probably right after you take the bar, and you’re just a law clerk, right?

Amanda Selogie:              Yeah.

Vickie Brett:                      And then depending on how good I think you do in that time because that’s like a good, that’s like all of August, September, October-

Amanda Selogie:              It could be a good, yeah.

Vickie Brett:                      We get the results in November.

Amanda Selogie:              Yeah, a good three months.

Vickie Brett:                      Three and a half months. That’s a good trial period to see-

Amanda Selogie:              Things are working.

Vickie Brett:                      … “Are you just trying to sit pretty, or are you trying to work hard?” Because I know a friend that didn’t pass and she worked at a big named company. And they were like, “Okay, that’s cool. Just study again, take a month off to study for the February bar,” and then she passed but they don’t have to do that, they could just terminate you.

Amanda Selogie:              Yeah, it could be 100% contention, but we’re very excited because we had someone close to us just take the bar who we are gonna be announcing soon as our newest associate once he finds that he passes. But he’s coming in.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah, we offered him a position. So, he’s starting as a law clerk, and we’ve had him on for, I mean-

Amanda Selogie:              Yes, I mean, he will be an associate once he passes the bar, but he’ll be a law clerk until then.

Vickie Brett:                      I see that.

Amanda Selogie:              So, he’ll start with us.

Vickie Brett:                      Oh my gosh, what if he’s listening to this and he’s like, “Oh my God.”

Amanda Selogie:              He’s like, “Did I not get the job? What?”

Vickie Brett:                      Am I not supposed to start till November? What is the madness-

Amanda Selogie:              Philip, we’re expecting you in Monday morning, no we’re just kidding. Just kidding.

Vickie Brett:                      Drink away the weekend.

Amanda Selogie:              No, he needs to take a little bit of a break. We’re really excited, we’ll have more information about him later on. But speaking of USC that’s a shout out, that’s where he went. So, we’re really excited.

Vickie Brett:                      Shout out.

Amanda Selogie:              He’s actually been with us for a while, so we know he’s gonna be a great addition.

Vickie Brett:                      So, yeah. That will be for our non profit. So, it will be exciting. But he’s not gonna be a co-host, I’m just saying that, just kidding.

Amanda Selogie:              For those of you who may think that we’re replacing one of us, we are not.

Vickie Brett:                      And fine, and guess who it is? I was just kidding in all of this I guess.

Amanda Selogie:              He may come in time or two.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah, that would be fun. I mean, he’s already been on so it’s not like news.

Amanda Selogie:              That’s true. But it will be good, it will be good.

Vickie Brett:                      So we’re gearing up. So, August there are some school districts that start up in August, Los Angeles Unified being one. So, we’re little respite time is over.

Amanda Selogie:              Have we talked about our event in September?

Vickie Brett:                      We did. We have mentioned it.

Amanda Selogie:              Okay, so again remember I think we have a little bit more information than the last time we announced it. So, it’s gonna be September 13th, it will be at the Chuck Jones Center for Creativity in Costa Mesa, it’s right off the four or five. It’s the Thursday evenings. It will be at 5:30 to 8:30.

So plan out now. Get your baby sitters in order, because it’s gonna be an educational event, but it’s also gonna be a lot of fun. We’re gonna have some live music, open bars, all kinds of fun stuff. Silent auctions, some ruffle prizes. It’s gonna be a great night for you to get more information that might help you on your path with your child. Also, a chance for you to have a little fun too.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah. I mean, it’s a heavy subject. It’s mental health and the cross over between that and school and learning. And if your child or a family member who is a child has mental health issues, or doesn’t have mental health issues, it’s just, it’s gonna be a great discussion and paneled experts that I think can give their two cents. Totally just nice to know.

Amanda Selogie:              Yeah. And we’ll be releasing our panel of experts in the next week or so, or by the time this episode comes out it might have already been released on social media. So, you get to see what experts we’re gonna have there. And we have a lot of great sponsors already lined up. You’ll be able to get some information about local organizations that can help you, as well. So just, there’s a lot going on and we’re really excited about it.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah, it will be a busy back to school time for us, season for us.

Amanda Selogie:              Absolutely. But today’s topic.

Vickie Brett:                      We never have a pause, both of us are just like …

Amanda Selogie:              Like how do we? No, today’s topic I wanted to-

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah. Did you read something?

Amanda Selogie:              So, I saw an article on, I think it was on Facebook, and I wanted to bring it up because it goes, we had talked a couple of weeks ago about the straws, the banning of straws.

Vickie Brett:                      Oh right, right, right.

Amanda Selogie:              And which by the way we need to do a little of an update because I don’t know if you’ve seen but Santa Barbara county and a couple of, or not the county maybe the city, a couple of cities have now come out and said that there’s gonna be jail time for businesses that don’t …

Vickie Brett:                      What, for business owners?

Amanda Selogie:              I think it’s like if they don’t follow the ban, then they could be penalized with jail time. That’s so extreme.

Vickie Brett:                      I did not hear about that. I’m gonna look it up.

Amanda Selogie:              I had a friend send me an article.

Vickie Brett:                      Oh, Santa Barbara backpedals on jail time for plastic straw offenders [crosstalk 00:08:42] article.

Amanda Selogie:              That’s so funny.

Vickie Brett:                      Well, because it probably, people were like-

Amanda Selogie:              We were outraged, I’m sorry, you really need to understand that the ban is not a good idea for all purposes and then to like-

Vickie Brett:                      It was up to six months for straw offenders.

Amanda Selogie:              For straw offenders. Oh man.

Vickie Brett:                      So that would have applied to restaurants, bars and supermarkets would be prohibited from providing their customers with plastic straws. Wow, and straws and plastic spoons and knives and stuff. I think maybe because they went a step further outside of straws because-

Amanda Selogie:              Maybe.

Vickie Brett:                      … that’s plastic silverware and then straws, I guess. Wow.

Amanda Selogie:              Interesting. Well, so that we had just done the part about that, and then I had a couple of friends sending me articles about the straw thing and I kept telling them, “We’re doing a pod, we’re doing a pod, it will be released soon.” And then it was but I saw this other article that when we talked about how sometimes these things have a great idea behind them, and helping the environment, but the impact on people living with disabilities often places a higher burden on them.

So, this article that I want to talk about today is another one that I feel might be placed in a little bit of a burden. Seems great in reality, but what are the implications?

So Starbucks just announced that they’re gonna be opening up a Starbucks location in DC, Washington DC, that’s going to be completely for service to deaf customers.

Vickie Brett:                      [inaudible 00:10:11] already, jeez!

Amanda Selogie:              Om my gosh that would be crazy if it was. Think about all the implications. We may not be in the political climate we are now if that had happened before.

Vickie Brett:                      Don’t even get me started with Puerto Rico.

Amanda Selogie:              So anyway-

Vickie Brett:                      Which should be not just common wealth state, that’s where I stand on it, I’m just saying. Okay. Sorry, go ahead.

Amanda Selogie:              So, when I saw this article well, I wanna applaud Starbucks because this seems like a great thing. My initial though was, “This is great and all, but how is it helping on a greater scale?” Right, because this is one store, so people who are in the DC area in general, people who may be very close to that store it’s gonna be great for them, right? Because it maybe their local store and it’s gonna be fabulous for people who need it, but is it a little exclusive in this sense because it’s only one store.

So, we’re saying people who need these deaf services need to go to this one store, right? So, it’s putting the burden on them to travel maybe further. We all know that Starbucks are on every corner, right? So, someone might have five other Starbucks within a 10-mile radius, but because this one has these services. So, and I may be putting the cart before the horse, maybe Starbucks has a greater plan in place, but that’s what I wanna know.

Vickie Brett:                      Sounds like it, yeah.

Amanda Selogie:              Are you going to be using this as a pilot program to then branch off to help all of your stores be more inclusive for people, or is this a publicity stunt for you to look good that you’re helping this demographic because you’ve been in some bad press lately and it’s only gonna be this one store? That’s where I wanna know of. Is there a bigger plan in place to incorporate some of these services into other stores?

Vickie Brett:                      And I mean, I think cart before the horse because we’re always talking about inclusion rights, so at the very least on the positive side it’s starting a conversation, right?

Amanda Selogie:              Right.

Vickie Brett:                      Where you can sit here and say, “Well, it needs to be more places,” but it’s like, “Okay, well this is step one.” There might be a bigger plan, but yeah it sounded like they were modeling it after a Malaysian store that all of the Starbucks that already has it.

So, when I was reading the article which is great because that’s like, “Oh, okay.” So, technically one already exists in Malaysia and they have the line system and stuff like that. And so, then bring it to America says a lot. So, it’s just like I’m sure it’s all dollars and cents too. Like how much is this gonna cost? We need a new, what type of management system do we need?

I think it had said something about in Malaysia both deaf and hearing employees are enrolled in a 10-week sign language course-

Amanda Selogie:              That’s awesome.

Vickie Brett:                      … which is like, “Oh, well that’s cool.” So, it sounds like in America they had said something like, “Oh we’re gonna focus on people who are already fluent in American sign language.” So, it’s like they’re already cutting a cost there, right?

Amanda Selogie:              Right.

Vickie Brett:                      I mean, that’s great for people who know American sign language, but I think it’s just like being able to have more of these places even if it’s just in Washington DC, and even if it’s gonna be for publicity like starting that conversation about, it needs to be [crosstalk 00:13:20].

Amanda Selogie:              Absolutely, and I think my whole point is just I really hope that when people hear this news they’re not assuming we’re fixing this problem, we don’t need to think about this anymore. Because I think that’s something where there’s so many issues going on in this political climate right now that it’s easy for someone to justify. We don’t need to work as hard on fighting for this right because someone’s doing a little something about it, so it’s enough because that’s where we come in and wind up changing the conversation of it’s a bigger thing that we need to be working towards than just these little things but it’s great.

Vickie Brett:                      Which is like taking a step in their shoes, right? When I was reading the article they were talking about most people that know American sign language need just a little bit more room because they’re using their hands, right? And it’s just like, “Oh wow, yeah.” You can’t cram in. You know how it’s like in some Starbucks it’s like oh okay, if I’m just sitting completely still and my friend is sitting right across to me over this tiny table we could make it work, but, I mean, I use my hands but definitely not as much as someone that knows American sign language.

And just even thinking about, they were talking about low glare surfaces. Because their eyes get fatigued because they’re either lip reading or they’re using that and I was like, “I’ve never thought of glare, low surface glare like what?” Different lighting and then the coloring and things like that. So, there is a lot that they are probably putting into it which is great. Sounds like the Malaysian store has it all figured out, which is good that they already have a model. That reminds me of something I saw years ago where I was I think in Thailand. So, it’s like all these other countries they’re so progressive. Not all of them but just some of them.

I think they had a fully operated KFC where 70% of their payroll were people who were deaf and hard of hearing. So, I remember seeing that and being like, “Oh, that’s cool, how does that sustain? What do they do? How are they able to sustain that?” If that was 10 years ago it’s like, “Okay, that was one KFC,” I don’t think they brought it to America because I hadn’t really seen anything else. I feel like they would have related this to that story if KFC had done that, like this article or maybe [crosstalk 00:15:38] it’s like oh well, corporations now that there are literally have so many powers don’t even get me started with like the supreme court but they have a lot of influence.

Amanda Selogie:              They have more freedoms and rights than human.

Vickie Brett:                      But I mean, they are at the forefront of trying to change things. So at least Starbucks is trying, yeah, I’m sure their PR people were like, “This will probably be good.”

Amanda Selogie:              Because I’d really like to see it be something because and this makes me think of a case I recently had where I had a young boy who was hard of hearing. We were trying to get him to learn ASL. I remember the school district’s argument being, “Well, if we teach him ASL and he clings to it, he may stop having the motivation to learn verbal speech and that’s gonna be bad because not enough people know ASL.”

Vickie Brett:                      I mean, that’s a parents choice to teach the language of the child.

Amanda Selogie:              Right. Not to mention the fact that I’m sorry but I’m pretty sure that the fact that ASL is a universal language around the world and it’s a global language, there are a lot of people who speak it. And we could be doing a better job of helping people who have ASL just like if someone, I mean, it’s a different language, right? So, if someone doesn’t speak english, we have things in english all the time. So, we should be able to focus on being able to translate for people who speak ASL, right? It shouldn’t be that the person has to grab a piece of paper and write down what it is that they’re trying to say, because someone else doesn’t know ASL. Why can’t we add some of these places because it’s not like a Starbucks’ barista needs to them to be fluent in ASL, right?

Vickie Brett:                      Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Amanda Selogie:              They should know the signs for everything on their menu, and they should know the signs for the basic conversational, what do you normally say to a Starbucks’ barista or someone that is making your coffee order, right? How easy would it be to have someone who, one person in each store that can speak that. Because then it’s not, we’re not giving into the argument that because it’s its own language and not enough people speak ASL, we’re not even gonna try.

It’s like well, no we could, just like at most businesses if their clientele may have people who speak Spanish, they want at least a receptionist or someone who speaks Spanish. It’s the same concept I feel. Because it’s allowing that access and the opportunity for someone who speaks ASL to be able to have the conversation. We shouldn’t be thinking of ASL as something like, “Oh well, it’s so archaic. We don’t have a lot of people speaking it. So, you’re never gonna be able to speak to someone else.”

Vickie Brett:                      Well, I think it’s like just even taking for granted how easy it is to just get to a Starbucks for your eye, but if you’re deaf, or hard of hearing, or blind, it’s not as easy to get to places. So, if these people are not getting to places, then I as a business don’t have to worry about them. I think that’s what’s good about Starbucks it’s like, “Look, we we recognize that this is an area of need.” Maybe in they picked that particular location because they are a lot, there’s like a pretty big deaf and hard of hearing community or because there are just so many-

Amanda Selogie:              Maybe there’s a deaf and hard of hearing school nearby, maybe.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah, school or something. I mean, I can only think of, in recent years, one maybe two high schools that even offer ASL as a language and if in Thailand they’re like, “Look, you’ll get a 10-week course,” I don’t know how many days that is. I don’t know if that’s every day, but I mean, if anyone could try to pick it up, that’s a nice skill to have moving forward.

Amanda Selogie:              Absolutely.

Vickie Brett:                      And being able to be taught that and thinking of it as another language that doesn’t just look good on the resume, but you could actually use because I mean, we deal with a lot of clients but even that the deaf and hard of hearing community and the blind, it’s like what was it? It’s like 1% of the population of children with special needs. Right?

Amanda Selogie:              Right.

Vickie Brett:                      It’s like super low, the low incidence.

Amanda Selogie:              Right. That’s why we say it’s a low incidence. And that’s why kids who have IEPs who are under a low incidence of disability are supposed to be provided additional services because it’s no longer just the idea of providing them with a free public education, but we also now have to ensure that they have access to the curriculum. So, it’s not just, “We’re gonna give them a reading intervention,” but we have to make sure that they can access that reading intervention.

So, if that means having translation services, if that means having an interpreter, if that means proving things in braille, that’s what that means? So, low incidence is the bigger thing because but it is. It is a smaller portion of our community, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not still a huge population across the globe that needs to be looked at. And I think that it’s something that it’s important for businesses to be considering. So, it’s great. Don’t get me wrong. I know I have my reservations about this article, but it’s more on the scale of, “I just hope that people don’t see this and think we’re done.”

Vickie Brett:                      Oh I see what you’re saying.

Amanda Selogie:              Because we did this one store, that’s all we need to do. I hope Starbucks doesn’t think that, because if this is a pilot program, and things work and I mean some of the things that you were talking about accommodations at the store is gonna have, probably just like we say with dyslexia accommodations, right? They’re gonna help everybody. So, if these are things that work in this one store and they’re easy to incorporate into every store, we should be doing that. That should be step two.

Vickie Brett:                      Starbucks already has several accommodations, the article noted, for hearing impaired. So, they’ll have a coffee timer that flashes and vibrates, interpreter services be it remote interpreting and tech pads for writing and visual ordering. Now, I don’t know if you have to specifically request that, because I go to Starbucks a lot and I don’t recall seeing this but-

Amanda Selogie:              I feel like I’ve not seen any of it. And that again puts a burden on them to ask for it.

Vickie Brett:                      Right, right. But yeah, I mean, yeah maybe it exists. We’re just getting to those and we brought it up the last time we talked about the straws, the [dysesory 00:22:01] packs that [inaudible 00:22:04] in Disneyland we’re offering that seems like super new. In 10 years it might not seem like super new-

Amanda Selogie:              That’s true.

Vickie Brett:                      … but it’s something that at least is like starting that conversation and I mean, I think you’ll see braille at ATMs and you’ll see and certain of the drive throughs-

Amanda Selogie:              What were you saying about the burger place that had braille on the bun?

Vickie Brett:                      Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, then I was looking up stuff for this and yeah it was, this is from a couple of years ago, it’s this food chain called Wimpys and they’re a bugger place and this particular chain was in South Africa. This may have been just like, I don’t know that is like they permanently do this, but they use the sesame seeds to spell out in braille, “This is you’re well done burger. 100% pure beef, made for you.”

Amanda Selogie:              That’s so cool.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah, that was cool. That they decided to do that and see if they could appeal to blind people, but that’s something where somebody could be like, “Okay, well obviously I ordered the burger before, I don’t need to know what it is after,” and I could see this more as a publicity stunt from Starbucks.

Amanda Selogie:              Well, yeah, I mean, but at the same time they could put the braille on the wrapper, but if you went an ordered for a couple of people and you’re reaching into the bag and you need to know which one is yours just because you ordered it you could have ordered three different things.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah, yeah. And so yeah that was-

Amanda Selogie:              That was funny.

Vickie Brett:                      … that was funny. Yeah, but I think that where Starbucks was going was opening the door. If other people follow is gonna be another thing. It’d be nice if they did, but it’s something, it’s just a challenge that we wanna present that you may not think about that sometimes we come across just because we deal with it, with some of our kiddos.

Yeah, it’s in the limited school setting and we’re trying to fight to give them that, the equity, right?

Amanda Selogie:              Right.

Vickie Brett:                      Or things being equal cannot always happen, but it’s at least giving them that opportunity to try to reach that potential and I think that’s what we’re trying to say here. It’s like we take for granted. Like I could go through the drive through in five minutes and get my drinks for everybody and everybody in the office, but it’s a whole thing for somebody that it would take if it’s a whole ordeal to get. M maybe they don’t have a car, so they’re getting on the bus, and it’s cold and they’re just like, “I just want my freaking minty green ice tea. I don’t want have to sit here and have this person not understand me, or be rude and be like whatever-”

Amanda Selogie:              And then having to try ask for a pen and paper to write it down-

Vickie Brett:                      If I knew they already had it, yeah.

Amanda Selogie:              … because then they don’t and then how do you get them to understand that you’re asking like, “Will you do the wave?” And that to someone’s self esteem to have to do that in their every day life, I can’t even imagine how frustrating that would be on a regular basis.

Vickie Brett:                      And just for people that aren’t deaf and hard of hearing to experience that, right? We talked about all the time how, “Oh it’s so great. Timmy has Down syndrome and everybody in the classroom wants to help him during P.E and kids acclimate and they don’t see differences or whatnot, and we tend to lose that once we get to, even college sometimes, and we’re not around that as much, right?

Amanda Selogie:              Well, and many times we never had it in the first place-

Vickie Brett:                      Right. Of yeah that’s so true.

Amanda Selogie:              … because a lot of people are not taught that when they’re younger. And that’s where it’s so important for us to be teaching the next generation this version of tolerance, of acceptance, of being kind to one another, but also seeing every other kid as an equal. That we are all human and if we can start that young and we continue it, and we continue to have that verbiage, it’s not just by telling, “Oh Johnny everyone in your class is the same. You’re all kids.”

It’s also about the way we act, the way we act around kids, the way that the kids watch us behave in our lives, the way we treat someone. I mean, whenever I’m at a grocery store and there’s someone who you can tell has some kind of special needs, who works either at the register or is a bag person, I always watch other people’s interactions. And it’s still to me, to this day so sad that I see so may people who avoid eye contact. Who maybe they’re saying, “Hi?” And asking you, “How are you doing?” Or and some people don’t wanna respond and it’s why? That’s something so simple.

They are trying to have a conversations with you or maybe it’s gonna take them a little bit longer to bag, maybe this is their first job. We don’t know and we need to be more kind to each other, and say this is the person-

Vickie Brett:                      Sympathy, yeah.

Amanda Selogie:              … just like everyone else. Exactly.

Vickie Brett:                      And because they dint have that exposure to it, they just feel awkward, and so then it comes off as awkwardness and it’s just like this perpetual cycle, or then that person that was reaching out and feels shut down. It’s just so crazy and everybody has their experiences that get them to where they need to be. The more exposure you have with that, which I think the Starbucks will do.

So, I mean, it’s not just good, just and I know we focus on the deaf and hard of hearing community, but I mean just for everybody that would be going there, and it just being normal. Anything that gets normalized that quickly is just, it becomes every day. And I think that’s what we’re trying to do with at least having some of those types of topics on this podcast-

Amanda Selogie:              Yeah, just to get you to start thinking about it.

Vickie Brett:                      Feeding into your ear each week but-

Amanda Selogie:              Shoving it down your throat.

Vickie Brett:                      … shoving it down your throat.

Amanda Selogie:              Just kidding.

Vickie Brett:                      Hope you enjoyed today’s episode. Come back next week. I’m just kidding.

Amanda Selogie:              This is not a paid advertisement with Starbucks. [crosstalk 00:28:04] by an ad. But yes we were not paid to say this, clearly because I kicked them at the beginning.

Vickie Brett:                      You went at them all.

Amanda Selogie:              I feel like they should accept and be glad for some constructive criticism. I mean, if they wanna pay us to be consultants, to have per week-

Vickie Brett:                      They already have. That’s how they got to this idea of advocate [crosstalk 00:28:24].

Amanda Selogie:              No, but I’m saying they could pay us to be consultants as an overall. Like how can you make your stores more inclusive for all people who are living with disabilities?

Vickie Brett:                      Oh, I see, I see.

Amanda Selogie:              We could be the consultants. So, if anyone’s working for Starbucks listening out there and wants to …

Vickie Brett:                      As if we don’t have enough on our plate already. Please Starbucks, hire us [crosstalk 00:28:40].

Amanda Selogie:              Since we are the people that are constantly volunteering for things, we can’t say no. Anyway-

Vickie Brett:                      We have our event in September.

Amanda Selogie:              Yeah.

Vickie Brett:                      The 13th. Did we say the date? The 13th, yeah you did.

Amanda Selogie:              September 13th, if you’ve been listening and you’ve not met us and you would like to me us, this is your opportunity.

Vickie Brett:                      To buy us a drink at the bar. Oh yeah, it’s a free open bar. So, yeah buying us, no I’m just kidding. Yeah that will be fun.

Amanda Selogie:              Is it a full free bar? I don’t know if we’ve decided if it’s a full free bar-

Vickie Brett:                      I mean, in the sense that with your ticket purchase.

Amanda Selogie:              We’re gonna get some drinks.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah. When you buy your ticket we always like to include at least when you, the drink ticket or something. We’re heavy on alcohol.

Amanda Selogie:              Look, we know you moms out there you need a glass of wine at the end of a week, or day, or it’s 5:00 somewhere, it’s 3:00. So, we get it.

Vickie Brett:                      We get it.

Amanda Selogie:              We totally get it. So, we look forward to seeing you there hopefully, and you can get through another week, and keep sending us topics or really-

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah, that’s always nice. Yeah, and don’t forget to join our Facebook page.

Amanda Selogie:              Yes. Yes.

Vickie Brett:                      You said the URL but I know you could go through, oh it’s the group sorry, you can go to our Inclusive Education Project page, and then from there you can join the group.

Amanda Selogie:              Join the group, yes.

Vickie Brett:                      Which is where we’re having discussion about-

Amanda Selogie:              Yeah, it is a private group so you have to be accepted into the group, but I don’t think we’ve had to turn anyone away. It’s just, there’s a question on there that just asks how you fit into this community and …

Vickie Brett:                      And that’s just for us to know so that-

Amanda Selogie:              Yeah it’s good for us to know the demographics of the group because how we’re gonna be posting topics, conversation and questions and even getting topics for the podcast as well that helps us generate it. So, there’s no wrong answer. Maybe you’re not involved in this world, but you wanna know more about it. That’s perfectly fine too. Maybe you’re just a parent and you wanna know more.

Vickie Brett:                      Yeah, there’s so many different topics that are there. It’s a nice place where we wanna continue the conversation and that the URL if you’re into URLs is So, take a look at it, join it, and we will talk to you next week.

Amanda Selogie:              Talk to you later.

Vickie Brett:                      Bye.

Amanda Selogie:              Bye.

Vickie Brett:                      Why would you pause? Bye.

Amanda Selogie:              I don’t know I thought you were gonna say bye.

Vickie Brett:                      Summertime, bye.

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